Handbook Talk:AMD64/Installation/System

From Gentoo Wiki
Jump to:navigation Jump to:search
This is a Talk page - please see the documentation about using talk pages. Add newer comments below older ones, sign comments using four tildes (~~~~), and indent successive comments with colons (:). Add new sections at the bottom of the page, under a heading (== ==). Please remember to mark sections as "open for discussion" using {{talk|open}}, so they will show up in the list of open discussions.

Missing underscores

Talk status
This discussion is done.

I have found two errors in the section "Configuring the network", there are two missing "_" in the followed sections:

Static IP definition:

 routes eth0="default via" should be routes_eth0="default via"

DHCP definition:

 config eth0="dhcp" should be config_eth0="dhcp"

The printable version is OK.

Um. Maybe you're using a weird monospaced font. Looks alright here: http://puu.sh/jGXzu/dc264e238b.pnga3li 14:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

We need an example with partition labels

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing as of 2017-03-09.

I tried to follow the handbook, but I messed up here when I tried to use partition labels. It turns out that fstab will let you use either FSA labels or partition labels. You use LABEL= for an FS label, or PARTLABEL= for a partition label. Since this page recommends the use of partition labels, it should provide an example. -Arch dude (talk) 04:38, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

You may not (yet!) have noticed, but the new stage3 tarball contains a new set of examples how these should be implemented, but I would agree that some more information in the Handbook would be helpful. I know the Wiki team have this section on their TODO list, so hopefully you will see changes in the coming weeks/months :) -- veremit (talk) 14:36, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

The network section is not valid anymore

Talk status
This discussion is done as of 2022-11-27.

By default the new system uses predictable network interface names so the section should be updated to show the command that retrieves the predictable name and the config file modification and init file should be updated accordingly. --fordfrog 11:02, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Automatically_start_networking_at_boot does include examples of predictable network interface names. If there's something I'm missing please provide more information. Thank you! --Maffblaster (talk) 12:23, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Indicate numpad support under "Init and boot configuration"

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing as of February 1, 2018‎.

On multiple installs that I have done, I ended up with systems that didn't support the numerical keypad. I recently learned that this can be enabled by editing the /etc/conf.d/keypads file. The change is to add the keypad option to the extended_keymaps variable. Perhaps the handbook should call attention to this.

Did you mean to edit the /etc/conf.d/keymaps file instead?--Charles17 (talk) 07:13, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I did. My apologies for any confusion. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by EhQHA1AMy (talkcontribs) 2018-02-02

Use a more direct language to clarify mount option (minor)

Talk status
This discussion is done.

This is also recommended for solid state drive (SSD) users to enable the discard mount option (ext4 and btrfs only for now) which makes the TRIM command work.

Raphexion (talk) 06:44, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

This is actually a user preference as it can impact performance. A user may elect to run fstrim by hand or in a cron jobs. It is also not limited to ext4 and btrfs. --Grknight (talk) 18:36, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
After I posted the above, I noticed the text already includes this. --Grknight (talk) 18:39, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

missing information?

Talk status
This discussion is done.

The Gentoo Handbook is excellent! Thanks. While installing Gentoo, I am just following the handbook step by step, and didn't have to take any notes! The only point of confusion upto this point is this: For the hostname and domainname, the Handbook suggests editing /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/conf.d/net. Is that sufficient? Other sites (elsewhere) say that you should edit /etc/hostname too. (/etc/hostname has not been mentioned anywhere in the Handbook till now.) Niku (talk) 06:28, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Gentoo's default OpenRC install does not use /etc/hostname which is what the handbook covers. It is true that a systemd install would use it but there is hostnamectl to easily edit it and signal systemd --Grknight (talk) 13:42, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Wrong description of 'filesystem type' field

Talk status
This discussion is done as of 2022-11-27.

In section ' Creating the fstab file':

'# The third field shows the filesystem used by the partition.'

should be

'# The third field shows the type of the filesystem used by the partition.'

-Mike155 (talk) 17:49, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Implemented the suggestion here: Special:Diff/1131433/1169775. Thanks! --Maffblaster (talk) 12:28, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Section about Filesystem/Partition Labels/UUIDs needs some loving

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing as of 2019-11-07.

1) It's confusing that the two sections about Filesystem/Partition Labels/UUIDs start with the sentence:

'In the remainder of the text, we use the default /dev/sd* block device files as partition.'

2) 'Both MBR (BIOS) and GPT include support for filesystem labels and filesystem UUIDs.'

MBR surely does not include support for filesystem labels and filesystem UUIDs.

Maybe something like:

Filesystem labels and filesystem UUIDs can be used with MBR (BIOS) partition tables as well as with GPT partition tables.

3) 'Filesystem labels and UUIDs are identified by the LABEL and UUID prefix'

I don't know. Im wouldn't call it 'prefix', because that would mean something like 'LABEL39542764-01'. But it's 'LABEL=39542764-01' in /etc/fstab and 'LABEL="39542764-01"' in the output of blkid. So we talk about AV-pairs - and the attribute name is 'LABEL' or 'UUID'.

We should probably tell users that they must remove the quotes if they copy the LABEL or UUID from the output of blkid to /etc/fstab.

An example would be nice. :-)

Please look at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fstab, section 'Identifying filesystems'. Much better (sorry!).

-Mike155 (talk) 17:49, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Inaccurate recommendation about TRIM

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing as of 2019-11-07.

'... for solid state drive (SSD) users, who should also enable the discard mount option (ext4 and btrfs only for now) which makes the TRIM command work.'

1) Many more filesystems than ext4 and btrfs support TRIM nowadays. See: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive#TRIM

2) I don't think we should recommend the 'discard' option. First of all, option 'discard' enables continuous TRIM, but it's not required for periodic TRIM. So TRIM works without the 'discard' option.

3) It seems that many experts prefer periodic TRIM over continuous TRIM. And if a user uses periodic TRIM, he should NOT set option 'discard' to enable continous TRIM.

Please look at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive for a good description.

--Mike155 (talk) 03:55, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Trim is supposed to be implemented as advice to a solid state storage device, not a command. Its up to the drive to take notes and actually do the erase when it judges the time is right.

However, poor implementations of trim treat it as a command and do the erase immediately. This leads to write amplification that is not actually required.

Its not clear if the extra erase cycles actually matter to the useful lives of SSDs. They may well be discarded themselves before they wear out. Its safer to use fstrim in a cron job than the discard option is /etc/fstab.

--NeddySeagoon (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


Talk status
This discussion is done as of 2022-11-27.

Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Optional:_Get_PCMCIA_working Did PCMCIA ever exist on amd64?

First there was PCMCIA, then Cardbus, then Cardbus went away in favour of USB2. Keep this in x86 but remove it from the AMD64 handbook.

--NeddySeagoon (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Cardbus was around during the early days of x86_64 but didn't stick around too long. One quick sample of this can be seen in a kernel bug. It is really debatable how useful it is. In addition, this text is for every arch so not very easy to remove without a whole page restructure. --Grknight (talk) 16:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
This is really very nasty, but it does work... Special:Diff/1169775/1169989. The PCMCIA section is now only visible from the x86 Handbook's Handbook:X86/Installation/System page. I feel dirty now. --Maffblaster (talk) 13:03, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Unnecessarily verbose neutral pronouns

Talk status
This discussion is done as of 14 July 2022.

his/her is used, which should be replaced by thier. This change doubles as more inclusive as well as more concise. I can't edit this because of how the handbook namespace works. This problems is also on a bunch of other handbook pages - I'd try to mass edit them but yeah, handbook namespace.

Jmcb (talk) 15:00, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

A fix was provided (Special:Diff/1050101/1050103). --Blacki (talk) 05:04, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

nano -w is no longer required

Talk status
This discussion is done as of 2022-11-27.

From the nano man page:

    Since version 4.0, nano by default:
        * does not automatically hard-wrap lines that become overlong.
        * ...
    -w, --nowrap
        Do not automatically hard-wrap the current line when it becomes overlong. This is the default

Use of this option could be removed from the examples make them more succinct and less confusing.

Jmcb (talk) 22:21, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I had actually added back the -w option in at least one place because, though it didn't seem to be required, it would be _so_ bad if it did mess up a file o_O. Seems pretty unequivocal that the -w switch is not needed :).
Looking here, seems nano 4.0 is three years old, so not sure if there should be some sort of warning for anyone using an older nano...
-- Ris (talk) 19:47, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
This has been changed as suggested. Thank you both! Special:Diff/1169989/1170071. --Maffblaster (talk) 13:12, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

systemd stuff

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing as of 2022-08-30.

Changing hostname using hostnamectl hostname 'hostname' didn't work in chroot. HOSTNAME(5) manual says:

You may use hostnamectl(1) to change the value of this file during runtime from the command line.  Use systemd-firstboot(1) to initialize it on mounted (but not booted) system images.

Do not recommend enabling systemd services (like dhcpcd) until systemctl preset-all is done (because this command disables services that are not included in "all" preset).

It would be good to mention systemd GPT partition automounting (see SYSTEMD-GPT-AUTO-GENERATOR(8)) before creating fstab.

K4leg (talk) 21:31, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Great feedback, thank you! Addressed the hostnamectl bit in Special:Diff/1131430 although I think the formatting could be better. Done the preset part in Special:Diff/1131433 too. I'm not sure how to phrase the generator part, could you give a suggestion? --Sam (talk) 02:42, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Do we set the hostname twice on systemd?

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing.

We ask the systemd user to run systemd-firstboot --prompt --setup-machine-id this asks for the hostname. Can we drop the earlier hostname part for systemd users? --Jonas Stein (talk) 23:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

systemd-firstboot fails on the official minimal cd

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing.

systemd-firstboot fails, because the system wasn't booted with systemd. maybe this should be moved to somewhere later in the handbook? MihailMihov (talk) 21:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Option to use genfstab to automatically generate fstab files should be pointed out

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing.

Since genfstab is avaiable for emerging under the sys-fs/genfstab package, it would be an important addition to point out the option to use genfstab instead of writing the file manually as it would simplify the installation process. --MymeType (talk) 11:09, 28 March 2024 (UTC)