Gentoo Wiki:Suggestions/Stalled discussions

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This page contains discussions that are not done yet but haven't had a contribution in quite a while. When you have something to contribute, feel free to move it back to the main Suggestions page.

Use actual variables for kernel configuration instead of menu items

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing.

It is much easier to check for actual kernel configuration variables in /proc/config.gz as well as .config files in kernel source directories. It's also much quicker to find in the menuconfig using the / shortcut instead of navigating through each level of the menu by hand. I also heard about planned tools that would add support for user defined kernel configuration and that also wouldn't work well with the fancy paths. --Pavlix (talk) 14:42, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

From a documentation point-of-view, the paths themselves are a much better alternative. Many kernel options are also grouped (for instance, enabling a number of file system drivers) and thus displayed in one go, whereas with the use of CONFIG_EXT2, CONFIG_EXT3, etc. users would perhaps tend to search repeatedly. So personally, I prefer paths instead of variables (at least in the KernelBox template. --SwifT (talk) 14:46, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
I had this crazy idea: Let editors specify variables, and have an extension that resolves these variables to the appropriate place in the menu. For your use case, the raw paths can be shown in a tab or somehow else hidden-by-default. As the menu structure wasn't immediately usable (I think I found one python library that helped with that) by the Wiki, I stopped pursuing that further. So, contributions welcome! —a3li 16:09, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
I love the idea. There's also the problem that the menu items generally don't appear. It would be nice to add a link to the end of the kernel configuration template to a page that would describe the issue and possible solutions. A guide to easily configure a menu item in any of the kernel configuration tools even if the menu item is not shown at all due to dependencies. I still feel that kernel configuration is the weakest point in Gentoo automation, while otherwise the whole system fits nicely, kernel configuration is still no better than in LFS. --Pavlix (talk) 11:40, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Moved here as this basically blocks on someone writing the code. —a3li 13:23, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
I'd be interested in picking this up (eventually). I'd have to learn how to write extensions for Mediawiki stuff before it is possible, but it sounds intriguing as a long-term goal for making our Wiki the best Linux-related wiki on the web. :) --Maffblaster (talk) 19:29, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Template for Elements in Troubleshooting Sections

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing as of Oct 25, 2011.

Troubleshooting sections on g-w.org just get larger and larger, and it is very difficult to tell when the information in them is still useful.

I propose a {Troubleshooting} template which clearly shows:

  • Date reported
  • Date report was last useful
  • User reporting (allow +1's if possible)
  • Link to bugzilla
  • (Problem description)

For example:

{Troubleshooting|2011-10-15|2011-10-25|bgo=366141|Screen all black|blah blah blah}

gives something like:

== Troubleshooting ==
=== Screen All Black ===
First Reported: 2011-10-15
Reported by: [hangfire]
Last Seen: 2011-10-25 {Note|If this information is useful, please
update this field!}
Bugzilla Link: [link]

blah blah blah

The bugzilla field should support links to other bug trackers (such as bugzilla.kernel.org when it comes back) Hangfire 22:05, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

This one might be a bit tricky as the +1 function needs actual code to back this. Maybe you can browse the MediaWiki Extension list [1] to see if anything offers a similar functionality? Also for this one, please add it to the suggestions page, and if you can, start working on example templates or ask for help with that. At any rate, I support the idea. User:a3li

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Extensions

I remember the old g-w.com(before the big wipe) had a {{bugzilla}} which you where supposed to weave into the narrative like you do with {{Note}} or {{Warning}}. IIRC it went something like {{Bugzilla|You might get a shock when you fiddle with a spoon inside the toaster|#bugzillaid}}. /Ni1s 22:13, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Hmm, lets let bugzilla do what it's suppose to do, however, Bugzilla Reports seems to be promising for our wiki needs :)mitri 03:30, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Machine Specific Articles

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing as of Oct 25, 2011.

Would it perhaps be a good idea to have a reference article for articles dealing with a specific laptop/desktop/whatever model? These articles on g-w.com really lack consistency. /Ni1s 18:35, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


My email to wiki@gentoo.org:

One feature of g-w.org are the machine-specific pages, which (ideally) have the cpuinfo, lspci and kernel config each for an individual model of desktop / laptop.

The best of these is a fantastic resource - for each piece of hardware, it has a link to a full article explaining how to properly set it up, with short paragraphs with machine- specific quirks and workarounds. These pages are invaluable when buying a new machine, where getting concrete information on processors / cards /chipsets etc. can be really hard to find. eg. http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Acer_Aspire_Revo_R3600_/_R3610 (One of mine :toot:)

The worst of these is a horrendous mess, needing {{Wikify}}, with loads of partial information explaining hardware that is already properly explained in full and specific articles. cpuinfo and lspci information is incomplete (or does not cover all variants), and there is loads of useless content (such as full copies of xorg.conf). They are a mess, are generally unmaintainable (or unmaintained) and are not helpful. eg. http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Acer_Aspire_3002WLMi

It is really important for the official wiki that machine-specific pages are allowed (as they can be so useful), but that authors are constrained (encouraged!) to write 'good' articles, with many links to properly-maintained information and without useless, replicated partial-guides that go out of date without anyone noticing.

Thus, we need a template or similar to show what is and what is not encouraged in these articles. {Template:Computer} or {Template:Machine} would be good names. Additionally, these would be a good candidate for a separate Category. Hangfire 21:53, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I never understood why whole ls(cpu|pci|usb) dumps would be useful. Why not split it up(use -s?) under some useful wired, wireless, bluetooth headings. /Ni1s 22:18, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I suggest a 'big table' approach, e.g. http://de.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/HP_Compaq_6715b . Astaecker 07:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Pros:
  • Compact table to easily determine the support status (see Status column).
  • Links in the first place to properly-maintained articles.
  • Workaround informations possible through Note (german: Hinweis) column.
  • Except of workarounds no maintaining needed.
Contras (in comparision to above solution):
  • No 'one-page' guide. Answer: It 's not possible to put all informations of the properly-maintained articles in a 'one-page' guide. It's too much.
  • Big table edits are not user friendly. Solution: We can create an template for that big table, e.g. {{Computer}}
I created an example {{Computer}} template and an example computer article using it. --Astaecker 07:01, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest a solution based on templates. As an example take a look at IP stack. So you just insert {Nvidia} to get a few paragraphs or a table with all the info about the GPU, or perhaps something like {GPU:Nvidia} or even {HW:GPU:Nvidia:model#} - so it would be more like a library with descriptions - just point out to the right direction. Pros: easy to maintain in single place. Cons: templates could be difficult to setup, and would require conscious and precise separation of info between templates.
:)mitri 03:52, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
In favor of the 'big table' approach, a use case is already present in ASUS_M50V, with the addition of creating links to page headings below where applicable (and lose the TOC), see HP_Compaq_t5710. Excess /proc/cpuinfo can be prevented by putting it in predefined templates, so they can be reused in different pages (see User:Wimmuskee/Processor/TransmetaEfficeonTM8000. Also in favor of a clear template structure, and explanations, for the computer pages, and predefined hardware templates.
Wimmuskee 9:09, 03 December 2011 (CET)
Not if favor of the 'big table' approach here. Pimping a suggestion here, the Asus Eee 901 article on gentoo-wiki. Feature(by hardware) headings with nifty tricks weaved in. Bit of old(maybe outdated) cruft there but you get the idea, and a good idea is to use transculated pages wherever we can./Ni1s 22:35, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps a combination by generating the transcluded pages from the big table, see User:Wimmuskee/Computer/example./Wimmuskee 16:20, 04 December 2011 (CET)

So any conclusion? --Emc 08:26, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

No. Because there was no discussion on the topic. Also no one started a vote.
I worked in the meantime on my 'big table' {{Computer}} template and documentation. There's now a real example article - Dell Latitude D630 D830 - , linking to the needed hardware articles.
Astaecker 20:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
I created a comparison table of the since now proposed solutions. Astaecker 11:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
name notes Pure Big table Sections by templates Big table + sections sections
author, proponent astaecker Dmitri Wimmuskee Ni1s
example article Dell Latitude D630 D830 IPstack User:Wimmuskee/Computer/example Asus Eee PC 901
devices overview An overview at the top for quick orientation Yes TOC Yes TOC
status overview An overview at the top for quick orientation Yes No Yes No
lspci, lsusb, etc. output Yes (model column) No Yes Yes
setup infos kernel config, packages, configuration Links to properly-maintained articles Links to properly-maintained articles Links and device sections Device sections
Complete setup infos Additional infos: advanced configuration, addon software, troubleshooting Part of properly-maintained articles Part of properly-maintained articles No (or task of the author) No (or task of the author)
quirks Workarounds for non-standard setup Yes (set a note and add a quirk section) No Yes (in device section) Yes (in device section)
All-in-One page All setup infos on one page No No Yes Yes
template per device Use of well-defined device specific templates Yes (templates for each row) Yes (templates for each device) Yes (templates for each row and device) Partial (templates for each device)
maintenance of the Computer article status, quirk sections, (linked articles) device templates, (linked articles) status, device templates, device sections, (linked articles) device sections