From Gentoo Wiki
Jump to:navigation Jump to:search
This is a Talk page - please see the documentation about using talk pages. Add newer comments below older ones, sign comments using four tildes (~~~~), and indent successive comments with colons (:). Add new sections at the bottom of the page, under a heading (== ==). Please remember to mark sections as "open for discussion" using {{talk|open}}, so they will show up in the list of open discussions.

Installation instructions on wiki (correction implemented)

Talk status
This discussion is done.

While the handbook covers installation, I believe covering it in the wiki better serves installers for several reasons.

  1. Each step of the installation can have its own page
  2. Links can be easily inserted for different build types. For instance, a link for formatting and booting from hard disk, another for RAID setup, and another for SSD format and boot.
  3. Links to external references can also be easily entered.
  4. Screenshots and other pictures can be added.
  5. The installer following a wiki like this can more easily tailor it to their own install and hardware. It should be easier to follow for a basic install, getting a new user up and running more easily, while still providing more advanced information for those installing advanced hardware or configurations.

This series of pages should be organized as a series of steps, one per page, with decision tree links at all points that require them. It should be based on the Gentoo LiveDVD, with links to other installation media and methods (first to Gentoo media, such as the minimal install CD and the USB guide, and then to other distributions if desired). Only the most basic information should go on the core pages. Decisions and advanced information should be linked to separate pages or even outside links (in the case of more advanced information). Core pages should assume a completely inexperienced reader. Advanced pages can assume the reader has more experience. — Serebren 16:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Having installation instructions on the wiki have been discussed a few times in the past. The major issue is that there's little guarantee towards users that the instructions are fool-proof and validated. Whereas the gentoo handbook usually doesn't undergo changes without developer acknowledgement, wiki's are much more difficult to target (and keep clean). Especially with an error-prone installation such as with Gentoo. I don't mind having different installation methods described on the wiki however, but calling them "Installation" might give a user the impression that it is an official one? --SwifT 18:18, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
What about User:SwifT/Installation for this page, and then we can link towards yours as well under the unofficial instructions once it is more complete? --SwifT 18:50, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
I like this one, it looks like a good start. — yngwin 07:17, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I like your approach, Serebren. Having links to separate pages for specific concerns is a good idea. But I suggest this effort to be merged with the Complete Handbook. Let's not have too much duplication. — yngwin 07:17, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I copied over the generic installation instruction with references --SwifT 17:56, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

I corrected the link for the Swift Installation page--Regards, Rob 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Introducing Virtualization parts into Gentoo Handbook

Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing.

I came here for the excellent Gentoo Handbook. Looked for virtualization aspect within the Handbook.

The Handbook Parts outline got its wonderful start in 2013. Its outline has been evolving slightly to accomodate the general consesus and trend. But I did not think that it is scaling up well for Virtuaization and its incorporation thereof.

While I have many customizations for many host/virtualizer/front-end/guest components, it is a current struggle to insert these valuable information into the Gentoo Wiki, simply by its intuitive Wiki page naming convention.

Currently, the final Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation is aggregated (by the Gentoo wiki server) and massively outlined (and parted out), the Handbook outline can be edited (only by our esteem Gentoo editor team) in smaller pages curently given below:

Virtualize All The Things! (or is that Meta all the things?)

For the ease of maintaining multi-CPU/multi-virtual/multi-boot, we need to somehow insert the "multi-virtual" aspect into the current Gentoo Handbook architecture.

There are two general aspects to consider here for introducting the virtualized environment into the Gentoo Handbook as a handbook part:

  • Host-side (bare-metal, physical, VPS)
  • guest-side

How to Introduce Host/Guest

We could explore one of the following approaches in having Gentoo Handbook covering the Virtualization part.

  • break out from the 2014 Handbook Parts Wiki approach and see if the "Guest Handbook Parts" can co-exist side-by-side
  • a surgical insertion wth the following sub-scope of selecting either the host or the guest:
    • boot VM preparation,
    • disk layout and mount options
    • kernel/Kconfig options,
    • kernel modules used
    • host/guest communication API (VM guest tools)
    • PCI passthrough,
    • viritualized drivers (ie., VirtIO. et. al.)[/list]
    • bootloader

So, we have at least 7 subsections that needs to be consider and perhaps added to Virtualization aspect of Gentoo Handbook.

There will probably be more subsections that are architecture-specific.

Side-By-Side Guest/Host

Self explainatory. If there is an AMD/Installation/Kernel, then there can be a corresponding AMD/Installation/Kernel/Guest.

I think /Guest is easily attached to a document infrastructure for any CPU/installation-section of the current Wiki page hierarchy. But it will not be fluid; given the many needed subsections related to virtualization, this approach may still fail in continuity and fluidity of the most vaunted Gentoo Handbook.

Many-Subsection Approach

If we assume the current documentation are for the 'host-side' of virtualization (and that's not necessarily a good assumption there), we could try and surgically insert the "Guest part of virtualization" (which is actually comprises of many separate subsections).

Introducting Virtualization Subsections

In preparation for introducing into Gentoo Handbook, I've prototyped Virtualization into maintainable subsections into Virtualization; generically organized into the smallest but nestable computer architecture (and only within my Wiki Drafts):

  • Virtualization
    • Virtualizer Engines (QEMU/Xen/VMware/VirtualBox)
      • Front-End to Virtualizer Engines (GUI and CLI)
        • Creating guest using a Front-End (virsh/libvirt, virt-manager)
          • Installing an OS into the guest

This is the cleanest delineation of nesting documentation on the topic of Virtualization that I could find (from many external Wiki and textbooks); something that can be easily incorporated into the Gentoo Handbook, as needed.

The following pages may then be a candidate for easier inclusion into the Gentoo Handbook.

The outline will accommodate multiple variants of guest target (Windows/Linux/BSD) as well as different virtualization engines (Docker/QEMU/LXD/Xen/Podman) as well as many different front-ends and bootloaders.

Starting with a concrete example of doing the QEMU/KVM/virt-manager/Linux guest/Gentoo OS, a prototype of (all-draft) Wiki pages are:

Of course, my objective is more about trying to help us (the community members) decide what to choose and where to go next for the current Virtualization page. Egberts (talk) 15:25, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Detailed virtualization is unlikely to be added to the Handbook itself for a few reasons. First off, it would have to apply to every architecture. Also, the Handbook is a generalized installation method which users can customize beyond what is written. Because of the number of possibilities, it is impossible for one document to cover everything. This is why other documents exist on the wiki that can fill in what is different from the Handbook. --Grknight (talk) 16:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC)