Handbook Talk:AMD64

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Adjust second person pronoun to third person

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This discussion is done.

I would have just fixed this myself, but new account. On this page there's a blurb tat we could adjust to be more gender neutral.

" A Portage introduction

   This chapter explains the "simple" steps a user definitely needs to know to maintain the software on his system. "

I think we should go ahead and change "his" to "their",or some similar phrasing. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steakwipe (talkcontribs) 26 January 2017‎

Consider it done. --Maffblaster (talk) 20:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Improve install experience?

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This discussion is still ongoing.

Hello, I was thinking perhaps in some places this guide could do with some updating and restructuring? As far as I can tell, each package's page on the wiki is designed to give more information (including things like common changes users may want to make, fixes to current issues, et cetera. These are useful, but are not really geared towards a new user) most notably, the handbook makes it sound as if you are intended to follow a separate guide that is in systemd. Obviously this is not the case, there is no guide within systemd's article that can carry an installation to the end, and all the relevant information that is available there is written in such a way that you would need base knowledge a new user to gentoo wouldn't have.

For this reason I feel that it may make more sense to make it so the guide branches off when the user needs to choose between systemd or openRC. After all, the openRC user doesn't need the instructions for systemd, and the systemd user does not need instructions for openRC.In gentoo's current state, choosing one or the other creates a very different set of requirements for the user's next steps in their installation. Outside of this, in its current state the guide essentially leaves the user with nothing more than a CLI only install? Surely the guide should help the user reach something a bit closer to what they expect (especially considering their experience may be limited).

I perfectly understand that it may take a while for proper guides on all desktop environments/common applications to exist, however I can't see the harm in starting with at least guiding the user on how to install the two environments the user had the option to pick when they chose a system profile. I have a KDE plasma/systemd install that runs quite happily, so I don't mind contributing largely to those two parts.

If this idea will only be accepted if multiple desktop environment guides are added "from the get-go" I do not mind doing my best to write guides for a few others as well. As I write the new sections/edit old ones, I'll make sure to test run the handbook as well, to ensure that the user will be left with a stable, running system.

I love gentoo, however despite the fact many sections are well written,there were plenty of points where the handbook as a whole left me on the verge of quitting and reinstalling Kubuntu (my previous distro at the time) and even now I dread the day I may break my installation and need to go through the handbook again; for this reason I would love to help ensure the handbook is an easy, smooth, pleasurable experience rather than the difficult, (negatively) documentation heavy, expert only experience that even some of my veteran Linux user friends would rather not touch, or dabble with. Not only will I have a far more reduced fear if my install were to break, but my friends may be more inclined to try out gentoo for themselves, and see why they may too want to use gentoo.

A few more issues that I neglected to mention were as follows: outdated commands, not enough use of common slang/acronyms (these will help ensure the user reads the whole guide, as they will have to backtrack to see what the abbreviation were short for if they skipped ahead. Armed with this knowledge they should be able to more comfortably converse with the Linux community as well), considering this could be the user's first time encountering some of them, there did not seem to be enough explanation of common package choices or why they would want them, at some points the guide instructs the user to emerge in such a way that would select a package, despite the fact some packages would actually pull it in anyway with the correct USE flags (hence it could make sense to explain what the -1 switch is for and where relevant include examples of how they could use it). I hope this is suitably received by the relevant people and look forward to what may be said in future, to those who read this now and in the future thank you for your time, I hope you are not left feeling like reading this robbed you of it. --Lyciathelycanroc (talk) 13:53, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

There are already multiple versions of the Handbook for different architectures. Splitting off systemd separately would multiply these by two. Given that wiki admins must approve (and implement) all changes to the Handbook, I don't see that ever happening. As for stopping at a CLI system, going any farther from that point in the Handbook itself would be introducing material better handled elsewhere — namely the existing guides under Category:Software and Category:Desktop (for example). I agree (with your implication) that the installation part of the Handbook ends rather abruptly, but it does point to the "Working with Gentoo" part (e.g., Handbook:AMD64/Working/Portage) where users are intended to learn how to use emerge, et al., to continue building their system — and to the "Documentation topics" list on the Main Page, whence users can find documentation about specific software, including desktop environments. That all being said, you are free to look through our documentation outside of the "Handbook:" namespace (which, like I said, only admins can edit), and add anything you feel is lacking. I agree that the Handbook(s) could be improved in many places, but unfortunately I've found that getting changes accepted and properly implemented there can be a rather frustrating experience; when it does work, it's usually when very specific suggestions have been offered (as in: here's some text to add to this place, or to replace this particular text). --dcljr (talk) 21:54, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
In my opinion, the manual pages about Portage are more useful than the Handbook. I am convinced that Gentoo does not know their user profiles. In short, I think that Gentoo makes organizational mistakes especially in relation to the community. I would not be surprised that these potential errors have implications on the quality assurance: outdated documentation, unintelligible features, decrease of contributors.... By the way, I share your point of view and I disagree with Dcljr or as some people would say "Gentoo lets you choose but Gentoo is not for everyone" (what?). --Feng (talk) 13:19, 15 December 2018 (UTC)