Gentoo Wiki:Feedback

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Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

Because of the behavior of {{!}} in tables, as alluded to in the thread "Template:!", I have created a new {{test case}} template (to replace {{testcase}}) that renders the test cases in <div> elements instead of table cells. This fixes an annoying issue where examples using {{!}} didn't work in the test cases when they actually would work in normal use (unless, of course, that use was inside of a table cell).

(The workaround was to use a different template, {{!!}}, in the "live" examples where {{!}} was used in the displayed wiki code — an approach that I judged unnecessarily confusing for template editors. See this diff for an example of the "workaround" method being abandoned in favor of using the new template. An alternative workaround can be seen in this other diff.)

The only thing that's lost with the new template is being able to collapse the test cases. Personally, I've never taken advantage of this ability, and I'm not sure anyone really needs it. (ISTR there's some problem with making divs collapsible in MediaWiki, so I didn't try. But maybe it's possible.)

To see the difference between the two test-case templates, compare [1] and [2] (for example).

Note that the new template emulates "definition list" formatting (bold term followed by indented definition) instead of the "table" formatting of the old one. This is largely for convenience sake, since I didn't want to take the time to try to reproduce the table formatting with <div> elements. (BTW, literally using definition-list wiki markup is out of the question, since that wouldn't display properly with many of our templates.)

So… any objections to converting all of the /testcases subpages to use this new template? (My plan is to slowly replace all the template calls, making sure everything works with the new one, then eventually redirect the old template name to the new one, assuming everything works.)

Edit: Struck out the part about not being able to collapse.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

I've given the new template the ability to collapse a test case (it was much easier than I thought), so it now does everything the old template did, and more. I've converted all the templates I created to use the new {test case} template, and will soon start converting all the rest of the templates.

Summary by Maffblaster

No, translations are not possible this Feedback page.

YKLA (Talkcontribs)

Is it possible to provide multi-language support and increase the translation options for this page?

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

I don't think so, but I'm no expert. This page is implemented by the "Flow" extension to MediaWiki. If that page doesn't point you to relevant information, you can try asking on the corresponding talk page.

edit: Whoops, I always link to the wrong page: try mw:Help:Flow. It's much more user-friendly.

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

No. It is not possible to translate this page now. Like Dcljr mentioned above, perhaps the Flow extension will support this in the future.

Besides, like most open source projects, all development for Gentoo is performed in the English language.

Summary by Maffblaster

New template Confused to make Wikipedia-like "Not to be confused with" recommendations.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

I've created Template:Confused (but not added it to any articles yet) to allow for simple disambiguation of easily confused topics (for cases where the names are similar but not the underlying concepts). See the template itself for further explanation. Comments? Objections? (These can go on the template's talk page; I'm watching it.)

Charles17 (Talkcontribs)

Maybe useful also for ebuild, the portage command and the file format?

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

Hmm. Those two might be too closely related to simply tag with {Confused}. It would probably be better to explain the difference explicitly in the lead section(s). (In fact, ebuild already does this.)

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Works for me. I imagine this template will be helpful as the wiki grows. Good work!

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

I've now placed this template on all the articles that I think can (possibly) use it. I've been a bit "generous" (some may think too generous in some cases) in my choices. Keep in mind that this is for the benefit of readers who don't have a lot of experience with Gentoo or Linux in general.

I wasn't sure how best to make this work with the Translate extension, so someone more familiar with that extension might want to check my placement of the template in articles (like GPM) that are marked for translation.

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

I think it is working well. Thanks for your efforts here!

New version of Template:Tl

2

New version of Template:Tl at Template:Tl/sandbox. Admin can copy it over the old Tl template if desired.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

I've made a new version of {{Tl}} in its sandbox that is more flexible than the current one. If we decide we want to use it, an admin will have to copy it over to Template:Tl because that page is edit-protected. Interested parties, please see Template talk:Tl for details, and comment there, if desired.

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Great. Thank you!

Summary by Dcljr

This template (now a built-in magic word) is indeed working properly

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

Template:! is well and truly broken (see its testcases). More precisely, it has (apparently) been rendered moot by the built-in magic word {{!}}, which was introduced in MediaWiki version 1.24 (we are running 1.26.2-gentoo).

You can see the various ways I've tried to fix the template in its page history. Nothing has worked — and in fact even trying to make it output the simple word HELLO? didn't work. So clearly the template is not going to work under that title.

I propose we delete the template and see if the magic word starts working in its place (it obviously isn't at the moment). If that doesn't work, then we can just create a new template under a different name. (That the latter approach will work is attested by the fact that Template:!/sandbox works, even though its transcluded content is identical to Template:!.)

BTW, I started to discuss this on the template's talk page, but no one noticed, apparently.

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

I've suggested you use IRC to ping people in order to help wiki admins notice things... :)

I'll look into this when I get some time.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

Sorry, I don't use IRC.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

OK, upon further investigation, I see that the "magic word" {{!}} is indeed working as it should. I thought it was not working properly because I neglected to take into account that template testcases are rendered inside of tables, which is the very context where {{!}} behaves like wiki markup (not "escaped" or "nowiki'd" text). (Duh.)

I'm now creating alternative templates to allow for displaying a "visible pipe" that will (hopefully) never be parsed as wiki markup, for use in cases where that is the desired behavior.

Because nothing on the page Template:! has any effect on the results obtained when using {{!}}, that page can either be deleted or not — or even redirected, as done on some Wikimedia wikis. My current recommendation, however, would be to leave it alone and simply explain the situation in it's documentation (something I have started to do).

So, in the immortal words of Emily Litella… Nevermind.

French handbook: the "bookmarks" bar is no longer displayed!

3
Summary by Feng

The page should be refreshed!

Feng (Talkcontribs)

We can see at this URL: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:Main_Page/fr that the bar is no longer displayed! I noticed this one after a few editions. Unfortunately, I don't understand why the bar is not displayed correctly?

Feng (Talkcontribs)

Problem solved!

Feng (Talkcontribs)

The problem can be solved by refreshing the page after a translation. Go to the "Page Tabs": click the button "more" and finally click the button "Refresh".

Summary last edited by Dcljr 09:19, 4 February 2017 4 February

Template deleted as requested.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

Admins, someone please delete Template:XYZ/testcases, which I accidentally created the other day. Interested parties might also want to watch:

in case any get created again. (These are linked to from {{Documentation/preload}} and {{Documentation/preload-testcases}}.)

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

User:Maffblaster, can you please delete this?

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Why are there links back to {{Documentation/preload}} and {{Documentation/preload-testcases}}?

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Used nowiki tags to comment out the references in the preload / preload-testcases sub-articles then removed article.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

I'm not sure what you mean in your "Why are there links back…" question. Back from where?

As for the "nowiki" solution, that doesn't work at all. Please see Template talk:Documentation/preload and followup there, if necessary. As I alluded to above, just deleting the template (thanks for that) and watching the three "XYZ" template titles I linked to above should be sufficient to address the issue.

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Please close this discussion if there's nothing left to do here.

"USE" sections lacks info on masked in profile

4
Summary by Maffblaster

Pointed user in the correct location for up-to-date information. Instructed them to improve the wiki with their findings.

Roki942 (Talkcontribs)

There's nothing about how use flags can be masked for a package in profile and how to unmask them.

Feng (Talkcontribs)

Could you rephrase your sentence, please?

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Roki942 , please man 5 portage and search for "use.mask".

https://dev.gentoo.org/~zmedico/portage/doc/man/portage.5.html

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Feel free to update the wiki to include what you find in the documentation here on the wiki. Marking topic as resolved.

Package searches and redirects

4
Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

I see that each package at Packages.Gentoo.org now has a "Documentation" link that leads to a "fulltext" search on this wiki.

Unfortunately, because it links to ?title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=Search&search=FOO instead of /wiki/Special:Search/FOO, exact title matches, including redirects, don't lead users directly to the relevant article but instead to our search-results page, where the title is linked at/near the top (unless you're logged in and have selected special namespaces to search, in which case the link is pushed way down the page by the hideously large "search in namespaces" box).

See for yourself at, say: [1]

Anyway, for the benefit of these incoming links, I assume there's no objection to creating lots of redirects from package names to proper article titles (when they exist — e.g., Thunderbird-bin, which I just created)?

Hopefully someday P.G.o will switch to using simpler Special:Search links that will follow our redirects…

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

I'm not opposed to creating package name redirects to specific articles (like you did with Thunderbird and Firefox), however a3li should probably way in on this topic. I'll ping him with regard to this.

Dcljr (Talkcontribs)

a3li? (ping)

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

I think he's gone for a while, but I'm not sure what he's up to...

The "Projects" Category seems useless !

2
Feng (Talkcontribs)

The "projects" pages are in the Projects 'namespace'. The Gentoo Projects category gives access all "projects" pages alphabetically. Each "project" page gives acess subprojects and they are all reachable through the Gentoo Projects category too. There is no need for a Projects category !

Feng (Talkcontribs)

The present structure is very confusing for a newbie: If there is a category you're looking for and you can't find it listed below, you may want to check Category:Gentoo_Projects. Indeed, projects are in the Project namespace but they are referenced in the category Gentoo Projects and in another category Projects (again). From my point of view, I didn't understand that the Project category is useful because there are pointers to subpages in the Project namespace. So, in my opinion, we have to rename this category or choose another category.