Gentoo Wiki:Feedback

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Dynamically-generated "USE Flags" sections are broken

2
Summary by Maffblaster

Provided link to explain why the packages template is broken on occasion.

Yolabingo (Talkcontribs)

for example https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Firefox

USE flags Cannot load package information. Is the atom www-client/firefox correct?

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Hi, Yolabingo , yes, this is a known issue. The package atom is correct.

Please see https://infra-status.gentoo.org/notice/20171019-packages

Calculate Linux (spam filter)

2
Feng (Talkcontribs)

The spam filter blocks the Calculate Linux website (calculate-linux.org).

The text you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a blacklisted external site. The following text is what triggered our spam filter: calculate-linux.org

-> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Distributions_based_on_Gentoo

Feng (Talkcontribs)

We may bypass the spam filter removing the protocol name and "www" in the URL.

News Item: July 28, 2017: Word crimes

2
Summary by Maffblaster

The message titled "Word crimes" is satire. We try to keep things fun.

Lanodan (Talkcontribs)

Seriously, a crime?

We have talks, conferences and whatever on how tech is marginalising people, and BAM this video on the homepage.

Let me summarise the first minutes of the minutes of the video (could not watch more than that without being seriously angry) from my point of view.

> Your grammar sucks, people are making fun of you (and it’s excepted), got eat a dictionary your retard

But actually the message could be more phrased like:

> Hey, if you see mistakes (everyone does make some) like grammar or spelling errors, please edit the page.

And maybe something like "Common Mistakes" link(s), not something that is:

  • non-reusable (it’s not text, it’s a video, you can’t search in it and it’s terribly not accessible)
  • terribly offending

Also, I have dyslexia amongs other things, English is not my native language like most people in the gentoo community. But it doesn’t mean I can’t choose my words and not be rude.

TL;DR

It’s completely disproductive by being rude, non-useable and maybe even other things.


PS: "Preview the result" is broken

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Hi Lanodan,

I hope this message finds you in good spirits.

The message titled "Word crimes" is satire. It is supposed to be not taken seriously because of it's satirical nature. Perhaps if it was written on April 1st it would have been more timely. It is all right to lighten up and have a little fun around the Gentoo webspace (in fact we've been doing it for years).

Laughter is good medicine for the soul.

Summary by Maffblaster

gentoo-en.vfose.ru is offline now.

Charles17 (Talkcontribs)

An outdated copy of Gentoo Wiki is found on http://gentoo-en.vfose.ru which is causing confusion.

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Not sure what we here at the wiki can do about that. I do not believe it's ran by any Gentoo developers. Perhaps you could send an e-mail to the Foundation?

A3li (Talkcontribs)

Nothing we can do.

Charles17 (Talkcontribs)

Finally kind of solved by itself: »ping: unknown host«

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Okay. We can close this discussion then.

Charles17 (Talkcontribs)

Inspired by http://manpages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search.py?q=openrc and the InfoBox manpage template, would it be possible to have Gentoo itself provide packages' manpages? Could be useful for the InfoBox manpage template and also maybe as an additional "Resources" item in https://packages.gentoo.org

Project:Android/build - Error in rt-sysroot script

2
Summary by Maffblaster

User asking for support; left instructions to use support venues for Gentoo support.

X48rph (Talkcontribs)

In the rt-sysroot script there is a sed error, need to change [:digit:] to [[:digit:]] in the line : -e "s,[^:]*(/lib/ld-linux[^.]*\.so(.[:digit:]+)?),${EPREFIX}\1,g" \

Otherwise it gives a sed error and creates an empty specs file

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Hi X48rph . This is not the place to ask for support. Try the Forums or #gentoo IRC instead.

Feng (Talkcontribs)

The term "overlay" is deprecated and is replaced by the term "ebuild repository"! The "Overlay" and "Overlay Talk" namespaces should be modified accordingly.

N.B: I think we should also choose a diminutive for "ebuild repository". The term "repository" has been reduced to "repos" as in "/etc/portage/repos.conf". Maybe, we could choose "ebd-repos", "e-repos", or "e_repos", ...

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

The Gentoo developers still need to discuss this change on a project wide basis, so I am hesitant to make this change until we get the terms solidified and agreed upon. Some developers still like the term 'overlay' to be used for everything except the Gentoo ebuild repository.

Gerdesj (Talkcontribs)

(TEST: Hmm - rubbish formatting here, what triggers noticing a new para ...)

The Gentoo wiki is very good as a MW site. The presentation is fantastic and very approachable - ie someone(s) really know their stuff about design. I run several MW sites myself and contribute in a very minor way to MW's docs and use several other people's/project's MWs, so I feel I have a fair grasp about wikis running on MW.

Each site has many templates, styles and so on that are idiosyncratic to that site. For example I created the original WIP template here and it has sprouted an author tag - cool: that's collaboration in process which is exactly what MW is all about. I was presented with a link to the template help - great: and I fixed my error.

However, most people are not particularly familiar with MW but may want to do docs because that is what they can do. These potential contributors may not be programmers or l33t sysadmins (well they are - they are Gentooers!) or whatever but can string one or two words together. These are the folk we need to enroll and encourage.

There is a link to the Help page on the front page but it is only a Category and a bit rubbish. The front page is very dense and needs weeding.

On my work wiki I put a bloody great link to a simple howto create and edit a page. I found that the shorter I made it the more people contributed. I gradually added links to more advanced stuff at the bottom as References - always in a new tab and people use them.

A handy experiment for user testing is to point, say, your (ideally non technical and non wiki focussed) partner at your wiki and ask them to contribute something with a few minimal pointers and see what they do. You will be amazed at how fast you realize how crap your carefully crafted wiki organisation really is.

I'll happily do the above - a simple set of editor docs - but it is a task that belongs to the owners of the site and I'm not one of those. I'll also drop that since I've added Visual Editor on my sites, I've seen a dramatic increase in contributions.

Cheers Jon

Veremit (Talkcontribs)

Perhaps you can swing by Freenode IRC #gentoo-wiki and it might be possible to discuss some of your ideas with the Wiki admins. Tia.

MalakymR (Talkcontribs)

I'm a new editor and whilst I know about some of the template: pages, it's not always easy for me to find my way there.

I'd guess a link next to the Help link at the top of the Editing page with an overview of options with links to the more detailed pages ie. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Template:RootCmd

Gerdesj (Talkcontribs)

@MalakymR: Bugger that mate. You should not have to fight your way around docs. You probably have something useful to explain to other people, but the last thing you need is trying to fight your way through weird and odd MW related stuff.

You are probably not daft and must have some skills because you are a Gentoo user AND you want to help out other Gentoo users (actually, you'd be surprised how many other Linux users copy our wiki pages or use it as the source for info. and as far as I am concerned - all are welcome here: we are all brothers and sisters)

I mentioned my acid test earlier: get a disinterested user to interact with the site - you learn a lot from that.

Cheers

Jon

MalakymR (Talkcontribs)

You can't have all the detail immediately there though. Which is why the split summary to at least get someone started should work. It's there already in the Help for formatting, a bit more for other objects like RootCmd would be helpful.

I generally agree though - people in the know/developers etc know it so well sometimes they don't see how hard it can be for a newbie to read 50+ pages of docs before getting started.

Though, a barrier to entry isn't the worst thing in some cases, need not be so big though.

Summary by Maffblaster

Instructed the user to get support on the support sites.

Amitbaba (Talkcontribs)

hi:) can't find ant bash files: bash_profile , bashrc etc.. any idea?

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Hi Amitbaba, this is not the place to ask for support. This place is to leave feedback for the wiki. Please go to the forums or #gentoo on IRC.

https://www.gentoo.org/support/

Use of metadata abstract versus article description

3
Summary by Maffblaster

Article description property to be used over metadata abstract.

SwifT (Talkcontribs)

Maffblaster and I had a small talk on it on IRC, but didn't finish it yet. Right now, Maffblaster is looking into a more flexible way of referring to other articles on the wiki (through the See Also sections). This method takes an article-provided paragraph as part of this source.

Now, the suggested paragraph is a new parameter (Article description) which provides a single-sentence description of the article. However, we already have the means to provide this (through the metadata abstract).

I would rather not introduce another parameter, but instead use the abstract one (which has existed for a longer time). The feedback Maffblaster (correctly) gave was that the abstract one often uses longer paragraphs, whereas the suggested parameter would use a single sentence.

I don't think there is really a need to differentiate on this. We can easily update the abstracts of articles to have smaller paragraphs, nor can we enforce that the other parameter would use a single sentence.

The reason why I prefer to keep it to a single one is to ensure that the number of non-visible parameter fields that we want to put in the article is properly managed, and that editors don't get the impression they have to provide the same information twice, trice, etc.

Maffblaster (Talkcontribs)

Another point I would make is the naming terminology used for {{Metadata}}. It is non-descriptive of its exact purpose, which is why I was motivated in creating the new {{Article description}} template (and associated Property:Article_description text property).

The term "Metadata" could mean a variety of things based on the context. There are a lot more potential data points (that I would eventually, potentially like to harness) in our articles, and they will need additional templates and properties in order to make it possible for automation and flexibility.

I certainly agree that it is good to open a discussion about this, as my experiments in this area have opened my eyes to the possibility of connecting (a lot) more data directly from the Portage API. The list of available software in Display manager is a good example. It would be nice to have a Package template/property and potentially a homepage template/property (linked to InfoBox homepage data?). This data would be called in the Meta articles to list the instructional articles presently available for each software package.

There are a lot of possibilities here, and it is definitely a dream of mine to have our wiki automatically associating our (excellent and always improving) documentation directly with packages and then exposing this to the end-users in a viable way (presently some ebuilds provide the URLs to the appropriate articles here on the wiki.

As far as I tell, the intended purpose of SMW is to make adjusting lists, generating charts, and graphics automated and maintainable.. I'm totally fine with adding additional data points to the wiki (such as semi-automagic generation of the Meta style articles)., as it would ease the burden on our editors and allow to have a standard of consistency across the wiki (for things like the See also sections of articles).

Another (somewhat weak) point: SMW (upstream) uses a property named "Description" for the same purpose I'm using "Article description." Only difference here is that "Article description" is more exact. https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Property:Description

Please also review this SMW example of data point being defined and exposed for references in other articles: https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Demo:Berlin&action=edit

SwifT (Talkcontribs)

Given that there's no other feedback of yet, I'll go with the suggested article description (especially since Maffblaster is much more active than me ;-) and approve those changes for translation as well then.