Handbook Talk:AMD64/Installation/System
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== Discussion title ==
{{Talk|date = 2024-05-13}}
A comment [[User:Larry|Larry]] 13:52, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
: A reply [[User:Sally|Sally]] 21:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
:: Your reply ~~~~
Missing underscores
I have found two errors in the section "Configuring the network", there are two missing "_" in the followed sections:
Static IP definition:
routes eth0="default via 192.168.0.1" should be routes_eth0="default via 192.168.0.1"
DHCP definition:
config eth0="dhcp" should be config_eth0="dhcp"
The printable version is OK.
- Um. Maybe you're using a weird monospaced font. Looks alright here: http://puu.sh/jGXzu/dc264e238b.png —a3li 14:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
We need an example with partition labels
Tip: To get this fixed sooner, use {{Proposal}}.
I tried to follow the handbook, but I messed up here when I tried to use partition labels. It turns out that fstab will let you use either FSA labels or partition labels. You use LABEL= for an FS label, or PARTLABEL= for a partition label. Since this page recommends the use of partition labels, it should provide an example. -Arch dude (talk) 04:38, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
- You may not (yet!) have noticed, but the new stage3 tarball contains a new set of examples how these should be implemented, but I would agree that some more information in the Handbook would be helpful. I know the Wiki team have this section on their TODO list, so hopefully you will see changes in the coming weeks/months :) -- veremit (talk) 14:36, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
- This didn't end up happening. There is now a section DPS UEFI PARTUUID which uses PARTUUID, but I think this still need to be made a little more clear in the previous section UEFI systems. I wouldn't be surprised if half of readers skipped section DPS UEFI PARTUUID entirely.
- — Waldo Lemmer 05:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
The network section is not valid anymore
By default the new system uses predictable network interface names so the section should be updated to show the command that retrieves the predictable name and the config file modification and init file should be updated accordingly. --fordfrog 11:02, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
- Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Automatically_start_networking_at_boot does include examples of predictable network interface names. If there's something I'm missing please provide more information. Thank you! --Maffblaster (talk) 12:23, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Indicate numpad support under "Init and boot configuration"
Tip: To get this fixed sooner, use {{Proposal}}.
On multiple installs that I have done, I ended up with systems that didn't support the numerical keypad. I recently learned that this can be enabled by editing the /etc/conf.d/keymaps file. The change is to add the keypad option to the extended_keymaps variable. Perhaps the handbook should call attention to this.
Use a more direct language to clarify mount option (minor)
This is also recommended for solid state drive (SSD) users to enable the discard mount option (ext4 and btrfs only for now) which makes the TRIM command work.
Raphexion (talk) 06:44, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- This is actually a user preference as it can impact performance. A user may elect to run fstrim by hand or in a cron jobs. It is also not limited to ext4 and btrfs. --Grknight (talk) 18:36, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- After I posted the above, I noticed the text already includes this. --Grknight (talk) 18:39, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
missing information?
The Gentoo Handbook is excellent! Thanks. While installing Gentoo, I am just following the handbook step by step, and didn't have to take any notes! The only point of confusion upto this point is this: For the hostname and domainname, the Handbook suggests editing /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/conf.d/net. Is that sufficient? Other sites (elsewhere) say that you should edit /etc/hostname too. (/etc/hostname has not been mentioned anywhere in the Handbook till now.) Niku (talk) 06:28, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- Gentoo's default OpenRC install does not use /etc/hostname which is what the handbook covers. It is true that a systemd install would use it but there is hostnamectl to easily edit it and signal systemd --Grknight (talk) 13:42, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Wrong description of 'filesystem type' field
In section ' Creating the fstab file':
'# The third field shows the filesystem used by the partition.'
should be
'# The third field shows the type of the filesystem used by the partition.'
-Mike155 (talk) 17:49, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
- Implemented the suggestion here: Special:Diff/1131433/1169775. Thanks! --Maffblaster (talk) 12:28, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Repeated sentence ("In the remainder of the text, we use the default /dev/sd* block device files as partition.)
1) It's confusing that the two sections about Filesystem/Partition Labels/UUIDs start with the sentence:
'In the remainder of the text, we use the default /dev/sd* block device files as partition.'
"include support for" is not the same as "can be used with"
- it provides a proposal that can be merged as is,
- that proposal has been unchanged and uncontested for 30 days, and
- all participants have reached a consensus.
2) 'Both MBR (BIOS) and GPT include support for filesystem labels and filesystem UUIDs.'
MBR surely does not include support for filesystem labels and filesystem UUIDs.
Maybe something like:
Filesystem labels and filesystem UUIDs can be used with MBR (BIOS) partition tables as well as with GPT partition tables.
"LABEL and UUID prefix" can be misinterpreted
Tip: To get this fixed sooner, use {{Proposal}}.
3) 'Filesystem labels and UUIDs are identified by the LABEL and UUID prefix'
I don't know. Im wouldn't call it 'prefix', because that would mean something like 'LABEL39542764-01'. But it's 'LABEL=39542764-01' in /etc/fstab and 'LABEL="39542764-01"' in the output of blkid. So we talk about AV-pairs - and the attribute name is 'LABEL' or 'UUID'.
LABEL and UUID examples needed
We should probably tell users that they must remove the quotes if they copy the LABEL or UUID from the output of blkid to /etc/fstab.
An example would be nice. :-)
Please look at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fstab, section 'Identifying filesystems'. Much better (sorry!).
-Mike155 (talk) 17:49, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
- This is a duplicate of #We need an example with partition labels.
- — Waldo Lemmer 05:20, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Inaccurate recommendation about TRIM
'... for solid state drive (SSD) users, who should also enable the discard mount option (ext4 and btrfs only for now) which makes the TRIM command work.'
1) Many more filesystems than ext4 and btrfs support TRIM nowadays. See: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive#TRIM
2) I don't think we should recommend the 'discard' option. First of all, option 'discard' enables continuous TRIM, but it's not required for periodic TRIM. So TRIM works without the 'discard' option.
3) It seems that many experts prefer periodic TRIM over continuous TRIM. And if a user uses periodic TRIM, he should NOT set option 'discard' to enable continous TRIM.
Please look at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive for a good description.
--Mike155 (talk) 03:55, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Trim is supposed to be implemented as advice to a solid state storage device, not a command. Its up to the drive to take notes and actually do the erase when it judges the time is right.
However, poor implementations of trim treat it as a command and do the erase immediately. This leads to write amplification that is not actually required.
Its not clear if the extra erase cycles actually matter to the useful lives of SSDs. They may well be discarded themselves before they wear out. Its safer to use fstrim in a cron job than the discard option is /etc/fstab.
--NeddySeagoon (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- This has been fixed.
- Tip
Due to degradation in performance, defining thediscardmount option in /etc/fstab is not recommended. It is generally better to schedule block discards on a periodic basis using a job scheduler such as cron or a timer (systemd). See Periodic fstrim jobs for more information. - — Waldo Lemmer 05:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Get_PCMCIA_working
Handbook:AMD64/Installation/System#Optional:_Get_PCMCIA_working Did PCMCIA ever exist on amd64?
First there was PCMCIA, then Cardbus, then Cardbus went away in favour of USB2. Keep this in x86 but remove it from the AMD64 handbook.
--NeddySeagoon (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Cardbus was around during the early days of x86_64 but didn't stick around too long. One quick sample of this can be seen in a kernel bug. It is really debatable how useful it is. In addition, this text is for every arch so not very easy to remove without a whole page restructure. --Grknight (talk) 16:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- This is really very nasty, but it does work... Special:Diff/1169775/1169989. The PCMCIA section is now only visible from the x86 Handbook's Handbook:X86/Installation/System page. I feel dirty now. --Maffblaster (talk) 13:03, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Unnecessarily verbose neutral pronouns
his/her is used, which should be replaced by thier. This change doubles as more inclusive as well as more concise. I can't edit this because of how the handbook namespace works. This problems is also on a bunch of other handbook pages - I'd try to mass edit them but yeah, handbook namespace.
Jmcb (talk) 15:00, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
- A fix was provided (Special:Diff/1050101/1050103). --Blacki (talk) 05:04, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
nano -w is no longer required
From the nano man page:
NOTICE
Since version 4.0, nano by default:
* does not automatically hard-wrap lines that become overlong.
* ...
...
OPTIONS
-w, --nowrap
Do not automatically hard-wrap the current line when it becomes overlong. This is the default
Use of this option could be removed from the examples make them more succinct and less confusing.
Jmcb (talk) 22:21, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks! I had actually added back the -w option in at least one place because, though it didn't seem to be required, it would be _so_ bad if it did mess up a file o_O. Seems pretty unequivocal that the -w switch is not needed :).
- Looking here, seems nano 4.0 is three years old, so not sure if there should be some sort of warning for anyone using an older nano...
- This has been changed as suggested. Thank you both! Special:Diff/1169989/1170071. --Maffblaster (talk) 13:12, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
systemd stuff
Changing hostname using hostnamectl hostname 'hostname' didn't work in chroot. HOSTNAME(5) manual says:
You may use hostnamectl(1) to change the value of this file during runtime from the command line. Use systemd-firstboot(1) to initialize it on mounted (but not booted) system images.
Do not recommend enabling systemd services (like dhcpcd) until systemctl preset-all is done (because this command disables services that are not included in "all" preset).
— K4leg (talk) 21:31, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- Great feedback, thank you! Addressed the hostnamectl bit in Special:Diff/1131430 although I think the formatting could be better. Done the preset part in Special:Diff/1131433 too. --Sam (talk) 02:42, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
GPT partition automounting with SYSTEMD-GPT-AUTO-GENERATOR
It would be good to mention systemd GPT partition automounting (see SYSTEMD-GPT-AUTO-GENERATOR(8)) before creating fstab.
- I'm not sure how to phrase this, could you give a suggestion? --Sam (talk) 02:42, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- I believe this is referencing the Discoverable Partition Spec so this can probably be closed since the Handbook now gives info for how to follow it. I did add a note to the fstab section mentioning this so users could be aware of it. Special:Diff/1283706/1298122
- --csfore (talk) 17:34, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Do we set the hostname twice on systemd?
We ask the systemd user to run systemd-firstboot --prompt --setup-machine-id this asks for the hostname. Can we drop the earlier hostname part for systemd users? --Jonas Stein (talk) 23:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- We now ask the systemd user to run
systemd-machine-id-setup. Does this also ask for the hostname?
- Adding
{{talk|good first discussion}}to this discussion, since it should be easy for a newcomer to test this. - — Waldo Lemmer 05:51, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
systemd-firstboot fails on the official minimal cd
Tip: To get this fixed sooner, use {{Proposal}}.
systemd-firstboot fails, because the system wasn't booted with systemd. maybe this should be moved to somewhere later in the handbook? MihailMihov (talk) 21:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I think I reported your same point here. Actually it turns out that the red error message shown by systemd-firstboot "System has not been booten with systemd as init system (PID 1). Can't operate. Failed to connect to bus: Host is down" can be safely neglected, because everything is correctly configured by systemd-firstboot anyway. I agree that this message is highly confusing for new users, so IMHO a note should be added to the Gentoo Handbook to instruct about this. --Lucatrv (talk) 21:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Option to use genfstab to automatically generate fstab files should be pointed out
Since genfstab is avaiable for emerging under the sys-fs/genfstab package, it would be an important addition to point out the option to use genfstab instead of writing the file manually as it would simplify the installation process. --MymeType (talk) 11:09, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- I personally don't think this is needed. /etc/fstab is quite easy to edit.
- — Waldo Lemmer 05:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
- The handbook is a resource for teaching users how to maintain their machines; I think that by abstracting something as essential as fstab we'd be doing our users a disservice. A wiki article (if one doesn't already exist) would be a welcome addition however.
- — Kangie (talk) 08:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm closing this. Even on my first Arch install, I found it easier to edit fstab myself than use genfstab as that wiki did.
- The stage3 /etc/fstab is populated with an explanation of the fields as well as an example. It really couldn't be simpler.
- — Waldo Lemmer 10:42, 23 May 2024 (UTC)