User talk:Glibg10b
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Add new sections at the bottom of the page, under a heading (== ==). Please remember to mark sections as "open for discussion" using {{talk|open}}, so they will show up in the list of open discussions.SELinux/Installation
Talk status
This discussion is done as of 2024-04-11.
May I ask why you undid the changes made by WavyEbuilder? --Lars Hint (talk) 06:54, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know how that happened. I undid my undo. Thanks for alerting me — Waldo Lemmer 07:10, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like I didn't undo my undo. There seem to be conflicts. I'll try to do it manually. — Waldo Lemmer 07:14, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Could you double-check that everything looks fine now? — Waldo Lemmer 07:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Double redirects
Talk status
This discussion is done as of 2024-04-21.
Answering to your question: If you open the page and click "Tools" (top right menu, next to notifications) -> "What links here", you will see all the references to that page. However, some pages that are not directly linked to will also be shown. This is due to Template:See also. If there is a link in the description of a page mentioned in "See also", that page will be displayed. This leads to another problem: if you fix a problematic page, "See also" is not updated automatically, but uses a cached value, so every page that links to the problematic page has to be updated somehow. Help:Redirects#Double_redirects also suggests using Special:DoubleRedirects, but this special page does not work as expected, almost all types of double redirects are not shown there. --Lars Hint (talk) 10:01, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- The technical aspects (and limitations) of MediaWiki are interesting to me, so thanks for this info. Just yesterday I discovered a template loop that caused a portion of a page to repeat itself 22 times (Special:Diff/1293610).
- But if Special:DoubleRedirects doesn't work properly (which I'm curious to know why), then how do you find double redirects?
- By the way, I've experienced this "caching" first-hand. My self-hosted wiki transcludes Special:RecentChanges from this wiki, but it only updates when I add an edit.
- — 10:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, I see. "What links here" shows double redirects in the form of nested lists. I'll be sure to fix these when I spot them.
- — Waldo Lemmer 10:51, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, they are nested, as in this example: Special:WhatLinksHere/Embedded_Handbook/Boards/Hammer_Board_and_Nail_Board: The page User:Ris/link_audit/broken_links refers to the page using a double redirect, so User:Ris/link_audit/broken_links needs to be fixed. So every time a page is opened, it is necessary to manually check which links lead to it. It's amazing, right? MediaWiki has made a lot of great design decisions, so no one wants to use the wiki and contribute here. I'm mostly frustrated with the categories. It would be much easier and more intuitive if it were possible to filter results by category. For example, a laptop page could belong to the categories "Laptops" and "Lenovo", and filtering category "Lenovo Laptops" could only show pages belonging to the "Laptops" category that at the same time belong to "Lenovo". But no, that's too easy, better to force us create tons of workaround categories. --Lars Hint (talk) 11:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, categories would make for the perfect tagging system. Pages can already include multiple categories at once. It's a shame they don't let you use them as tags, and for some reason intend for them to be used in a hierarchy (i.e. "Laptops" should not include "Thinkpad P50", but should instead include it indirectly through "Lenovo Laptops").
- Imagine if we could see a list of all laptops on the wiki. With everything arranged in a hierarchy, that's currently not possible without external software.
- — Waldo Lemmer 11:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Initially all laptops were in the "Laptops" category, until I sorted them by company. There were some problems with the original structure: some pages belong to userspaces, causing alphabetical ordering to be broken (caused duplicate pages); some pages did not have a company prefix (with the new structure this problem is completely fixed); some laptops were sold by different companies until these companies were merged with others (e.g. IBM ThinkPad T42); laptop-related pages were mixed with laptop pages, creating a mess; people rarely used blueprints. The same problems exist in Category:Embedded systems. I tried to make Category:Boards, but I'm so frustrated I don't want to continue. Some of the devices out there are not even boards, but something else. If Gentoo is installed on a router, for example, and used as a PC, the router is no longer a router, but a board. That doesn't make sense. And what about single board computers? Aren't they desktop computers? The line between a motherboard and just a board is also implicit. What to do with company names? Some of them no longer exist or have been rebranded. I think I understand why Matthew Marchese (maffblaster) gave up on the Embedded Handbook. There's a bunch of duplicate articles out there, especially on the Raspberry Pi, all because of poor organization. Or even because of conflicts between authors. --Lars Hint (talk) 13:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
If Gentoo is installed on a router, for example, and used as a PC, the router is no longer a router, but a board. That doesn't make sense. And what about single board computers? Aren't they desktop computers? The line between a motherboard and just a board is also implicit. What to do with company names? Some of them no longer exist or have been rebranded.
- This does not sound like a problem you should face alone. Questions like these need discussion. Have you tried talk pages?
- If that's not working, and if you'd like, you could take one question at a time to #gentoo-wiki (webchat). We (me, and all other active users on that channel) love the work that you do, so I'm sure people would love to have those discussions with you.
- — Waldo Lemmer 13:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- I tried to talk to M. Marchese (the attempt), but got no response, and after a month of waiting I realized that if you need something, do it yourself. I'm also skeptical of talking because people here are starting to ignore me for some reason (example). Or even respond in a rude manner, even if they are wrong ( example). I've also seen a lot of old closed aggressive conversations here (not towards me). --Lars Hint (talk) 14:00, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding your first point: Yeah, that's the main weakness of talk pages — nothing's stopping people from ignoring you. However, since IRC basically forces people to respond (because starting a new conversation would be a blatantly rude act and visible to everyone), and because the people who appreciate your work the most (the admins) are the most active members, I think you'll feel welcome and heard there.
- — Waldo Lemmer 14:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category naming convention
Talk status
This discussion is still ongoing.
Hello, Waldo! I still can't stop thinking about your words that categories in their current form are not predictable. If looking at a list of all the categories, it's obvious that everyone names the categories whatever they want. Some use capitalization in every word, some don't. This resulted in duplicate categories (e.g. Category:Embedded systems and Category:Embedded Systems). And as I see it, such duplicates are always resolved in favor of using lowercase characters in words. So the question is, do all categories that don't follow this convention need to be renamed? Unfortunately, I've created tons of these categories (as you know). The reason for this was a pre-existing category that used the wrong convention: Category:Brother Printers. Wikipedia also uses lowercase (example: Lenovo laptops). So what do you think about it? --Lars Hint (talk) 13:12, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Lowercase should be preferred, since that's the convention we use for article titles[1].
- As you most certainly know, categories don't work through redirects, so it's not as simple as moving Category:Embedded Systems to Category:Embedded systems; pages need to be moved individually. But moving pages to the correct category is pretty time consuming for little benefit.
- I instead suggest transferring the badly named category page's categories to the well-named category page, then making the badly named page a sub-category of the well-named page. This ensures that Special:Ask works correctly, but also means that we don't have to move all members of the category at once — new contributors can handle this task incrementally. Immolo (Immolo) , this would be a great task for Reddit.
- — Waldo Lemmer 14:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- In the case of the categories I created, they all use one of the following templates: Template:LaptopCategory; Template:BoardCategory; Template:MotherboardCategory. I'm not very familiar with creating templates, but it seems to me that it should be possible to define categories via templates? --Lars Hint (talk) 14:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, templates can add pages to categories via {{CatMask}}, and many do (e.g. {{Dirty}}). When all pages under a badly named category, and only those pages, include the same template, we can add them all to a new category by editing the template.
- Unfortunately, removing them from the old category would still have to be done manually. And doing that is just as easy as moving the pages to the correct category would have been. So I don't think this is something we should go for.
- See my contribs for an example of what I was proposing above.
- — Waldo Lemmer 14:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- But is it possible to dynamically assign categories? For example, the "HP laptops" page uses "Template:LaptopCategory" which will automatically detect the "HP" prefix and put the page in the "HP" category? The same thing could be done with laptops. In this case, the template will identify the company by prefix and assign "Category:HP laptops" to the laptop. --Lars Hint (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, this wiki doesn't support string parser functions. If it did, we could use #sub, #match and #switch together to choose a category based on the first word in the title. Without string parser functoins, I don't think something like this is possible at all.
- — Waldo Lemmer 14:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, that would be easy to do.
- — Waldo Lemmer 15:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm on it :)
- — Waldo Lemmer 15:10, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- On second thought, I think I should just modify those templates directly.
- Just to be sure, you're planning to call these templates with e.g.
{{LaptopCategory|HP}}, right?
- Just to be sure, you're planning to call these templates with e.g.
- Edit: Okay, maybe you're thinking
{{LaptopPage|HP}}instead. But then what do you mean by "Can you make such a generic template that will be used by the templates I listed above"? - — Waldo Lemmer 15:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Edit: Okay, maybe you're thinking
- How's this? Check this page's source for the usage.
/sandboxwon't be required in real use. - — Waldo Lemmer 17:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- How's this? Check this page's source for the usage.
- This was actually quite easy (it only took long because I had stuff to do irl). The real concern is how we'll integrate it — {{LaptopCategory}} is currently transcluded by about 20 categories, 3 of which shouldn't use the generic template at all.
- — Waldo Lemmer 17:40, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- It would have to be optional in {{GenericCompanyRelatedPage}} as well. I can do that, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow since I have two assignments due tonight :)
- — Waldo Lemmer 17:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Awesome!
- I didn't check over your code (template code is easier to write than it is to read), but testing shows that it works well. There's no error handling, but we can worry about that later.
- — Waldo Lemmer 02:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Did you intend for it to add to two categories at once when using arch? See below.
- — Waldo Lemmer 03:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Where I integrate this, I want to use unnamed parameters instead of named parameters so editors don't need to worry about remembering parameter names:
{{LaptopCategory|HP|AMD64}}.
- Where I integrate this, I want to use unnamed parameters instead of named parameters so editors don't need to worry about remembering parameter names:
- I would vote against unnamed parameters, as it will be difficult to work with the template if more arguments come up in the future. This will be especially a problem if parsing the company name by title prefix is implemented in the future. And yes, two categories are filled intentionally. We could even add one more category for series (as you proposed in the previous discussion). --Lars Hint (talk) 07:00, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Alright, then. I do think Category:HP laptops (AMD64) should belong to Category:HP laptops and Category:AMD64, so pages that belong to Category:HP laptops (AMD64) don't have to also belong to those categories. The same applies to Category:HP Pavilion laptops (AMD64), which should also belong to Category:HP Pavilion laptops.
- — Waldo Lemmer 08:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, why?
- — Waldo Lemmer 10:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)