Handbook Talk:AMD64/Installation/Stage

NTP
Maybe a pointer to use ntpdate (a la `ntpdate -s time.nist.gov`) should show up instead of just date? Not everybody has an accurate clock handy :) Hlzr (talk) 05:05, 7 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Valid point, although this presumes the system as a connection to the internet, which I guess we're presuming in the first place since readers are instructed to download the stage 3 file. I'll consider adding an alternative here. Thanks for the input! --Maffblaster (talk) 19:39, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Extended attributes while untarring
The --xattr option when untarring the stage3 tarball is ignored when using the minimal install iso for amd64 built on 20150709.--Bamapookie (talk) 21:57, 26 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Grab a newer version of the ISO containing a newer version of . Should be fine at this point. --Maffblaster (talk) 19:36, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Choosing a stage tarball
No-multilib (pure 64-bit) Selecting a no-multilib tarball to be base of the new system will provides a complete 64-bit operating system environment.This effectively renders the ability able to switch to multilib profiles improbable (although it is not impossible). A better (from grammar and context perspective) sentence would be : Selecting a no-multilib tarball as base of the new system will provide only a complete 64-bit operating system environment. This effecti-vely renders the ability to switch to multilib profiles improbable ... (Georgios Doumas)


 * Georgios, I'll take a look and try to make some grammatical improvements. You can sign your messages on here by clicking the "Signature and timestamp" button in the format box above. :) --Maffblaster (talk) 20:34, 10 March 2016 (UTC)


 * What about having a short mention in this section about the overview on the download page?--Charles17 (talk) 06:58, 11 March 2016 (UTC)


 * open a bug on Bugzilla if you'd like. Main www is outside wiki scope. :) Kind regards, --Maffblaster (talk) 19:36, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Portage and stage3 security recommendations
As outlined at bugs #597804 and #597800 portage does not operate securely by default. Changes that seem to be pending include:
 * stage3 images will include cryptographic keys for the automated establishment of trust
 * stage3 images will include a gentoo key management utility

While these are promising improvements, they have been pending for 4 years already and may not be completed soon, and are not enough to fully secure portage's operation, which currently requires manual processes.

Therefore, currently it would seem useful to add a pointer right here in the installation instructions to the secure portage configuration information already documented at Working with Gentoo / Portage Features / Fetching Files / Validated Portage tree snapshots. It might be better to move it here, rather than keep it there, since it's now critical.

Note that the secure sync only works for emerge-webrsync and no security is possible with traditional rsync. Walter (talk) 23:02, 29 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Note that securing portage is pointless if the stage3 image downloaded has been compromised. Therefore I would suggest as a related change taking the current text regarding validation of stage3 and promoting it to its own subheading: Validating the stage tarball. In addition, the current text does not explain the problems with man in the middle attacks (in recent years well documented as utilized by state actors) that cannot be resolved with the current recommended process (ie. download stage3 and digests at same time over same network link from an official gentoo mirror - none of which are encrypted under any protocol = both digest and stage3 are compromised at the same time, therefore cannot be trusted). The current text is misleading. Suggested order of content:
 * Big fat warning box saying that while the step is optional, if you skip this step there is absolutely no guarantee that you will ever have a secure system and it is highly recommended to bother.
 *  Rationale : Importance currently understated. New users perhaps unfamiliar with significance.
 * Method of obtaining the Gentoo keys on a non-Gentoo host system being used as an install platform should be described. This uses HTTPS to obtain the key IDs, followed by the HKP GPG keyserver protocol (an unencrypted protocol based upon HTTP) to obtain the keys.  Probably the keys themselves should be provided via HTTPS. 
 *  Note : The URL for the keys is apparently the Wiki page over here.
 *  Rationale : Required for subsequent steps.
 * Info box on additional high-assurance step of double-validating &mdash; re-fetching the same keys from another device/network connection or proxy server, preferably from a different mirror, eg. via smartphone with mobile data, Tor, a secure proxy, or an ssh tunnel ( bold underlined super-obvious highlight  that critically this must be run from outside the chroot - otherwise you are running potentially compromised code and giving it your remote server credentials!) to a network-geographically disparate server.
 *  Rationale : This protects against failures in SSL (eg. state-level attackers able to forge certificates to enable SSL MITM), locally compromised SSL certificate chains, MITM attacks on the current HKP (= HTTP = unencrypted) based GPG key acquisition process, and compromised mirrors.
 * GPG validation of the stage3.
 *  Note : Text currently present.
 *  Rationale : Requirement for subsequent steps.
 * Digest validation.
 *  Note : Currently before the above, and pointless from a security standpoint without first doing the above.
 *  Rationale : Validates downloaded binary.
 * Immediate transition to a new top-level heading (between Installing a stage tarball and Configuring compile option) called Securing portage, with existing content from over here, and a big fat warning box that it is required to maintain system integrity (as per original point).
 * -- Walter (talk) 23:18, 29 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I saw your comment on pointing here.  And I think you should also add your points as a new first chapter in the Security_Handbook even before the Pre installation concerns section.

--Charles17 (talk) 09:56, 28 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Your suggestions and concerns did not go unnoticed. I did see them but have no gotten around to them at the moment. As for the present, it would probably be a good idea to capture the practical steps to integrate these changes in wiki markup in the Security Handbook as suggested. I will review them and make determinations on each of them over the course of the next few days. Kind regards, --Maffblaster (talk) 21:53, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Ping-back to 'Verifying the install ISO' when 'installing stage3'
I thought it might be handy to have a link in the Para. that starts "Just like with the ISO file..." back to the Installation/Media stage for people like myself, who don't always download a fresh ISO image every install (we likely have one lying around!) but will always download an up-to-date clean stage3, and may not remember the GPG commands to download the Gentoo RelEng keys, and verify. There is a infobox for the verify command, alternatively we could repeat the 'downloading gentoo key' box into this para. if that was deemed appropriate instead.

-- veremit (talk) 21:43, 20 February 2017 (UTC)