Gentoo Wiki:Suggestions/Archive

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Archive
For completed discussion see Archive subpage.

Relationship with existing Gentoo documentation
Will it be possible to somehow incorporate the existing Gentoo documentation into this wiki, perhaps have this as the user editable version, with revisions pushed to the guidexml docs with are the official "reference" and are verified to be of a certain quality by the documentation team. --Mark alec 13:53, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree. This would relieve Gentoo Documentation from a majority of documentation, such as GCC Upgrade is a good example (although this upgrading has been resolved). This would also provide Gentoo users more recent and up-to-date documentation. The only documentation I see as toss-up, are the Gentoo Install documents and Ebuild Writing documents -- which should remain standardized. However, the pro with going Wiki on these, the Gentoo Documentation group would only need to take a snapshot of a current wiki -- similar to Gentoo and Sabayon or System RescueCD. ;-)  This is really long over due, but not too late!  Signed: Roger 19:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind, that the doc team is not interested, see ML column at Gentoo Wiki:Progress
 * Astaecker 19:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It isn't about being against anything. License-wise, this should be okay, since the current license in use by the majority of documents is the same, just a lower version. From the legal document of the CC-BY-SA, it mentions something about allowing later versions so I believe that we can use the content of the gentoo documents and put it under the 3.0 version on the wiki. I also don't mind that this is done, but for a documentation development point-of-view, keeping the master in a wiki might not be a best option. There is quite some documentation development being done off-line (used to be even more offline than online, but things change ;-) I would personally rather see more specific documents be moved from the main site to the wiki (such as the logcheck one).
 * --SwifT 17:11, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * /start rant
 * Okay, I am new to the Gentoo project and the conflicting/outdated documentation is driving me crazy, specifically all the X.org stuff only using nvidia-drivers and I apparently have to use nouveau since nvidia-drivers don't support GeForce2 according to some documentation, and I came across one document that said that it does support it. I could probably use the man pages, but the docs are supposed to make setup easy. There are a few other examples, but that one is the biggest.
 * /end rant
 * So, since there is no apparent page to explain this, I have set up a (hopefully) temporary inconsistency-/differences-between-versions page for the Documentation just before I wrote this comment. I am just posting to draw attention to it and let people know that it is there.
 * post scriptum ad persona de Gentoo/Documentation: please, PLEASE, use this page to edit documentation -- Preceding unsigned comment by User:Jamiahx


 * The wiki is not a bug/improvement tracker for the documentation, file bugs on bugs.gentoo.org instead. I deleted the article. Also, please sign your comments in the wiki. Thanks, —a3li 20:52, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


 * If you don't know which driver to use, what you should do is ask on the Gentoo Forums, and once you have the answer, edit the wiki. For official documentation, file a documentation bug. If there is a discrepancy in the wiki, it's probably better to add it to its Talk Page. (Although I think having some consistent way of reporting problems in the wiki like you outlined is a good idea) --Alec 20:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The talk page is the canonical page to raise problems with an article. Or, this page if it's a concerning multiple articles. —a3li 21:13, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Resume numbered list
When trying to use a RootCmd or  environment within a numbered list, the list counter gets reset to 1. Thus I ended up using bullet lists. (via email)

and tags for references
IMO, the wiki needs and tags, e.g. for quotations from other websites. --Mekeor 21:10, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I second that - just add the Cite extension. Gerdesj 17:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

(un)fold code button
A button to (un)fold large code and file template blocks, to maintain readability. Hypnos 04:45, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * There will be a built-in solution in MediaWiki 1.18, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.18#New_plugin_for_collapsible_elements --Astaecker 15:37, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * MediaWiki 1.18 is out. See the manual for details. --Astaecker 14:39, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Template for Elements in Troubleshooting Sections
Troubleshooting sections on g-w.org just get larger and larger, and it is very difficult to tell when the information in them is still useful.

I propose a {Troubleshooting} template which clearly shows:
 * Date reported
 * Date report was last useful
 * User reporting (allow +1's if possible)
 * Link to bugzilla
 * (Problem description)

For example: {Troubleshooting|2011-10-15|2011-10-25|bgo=366141|Screen all black|blah blah blah}

gives something like:

= Troubleshooting =

Screen All Black
First Reported: 2011-10-15 Reported by: [hangfire] Last Seen: 2011-10-25 {Note|If this information is useful, please update this field!} Bugzilla Link: [link]

blah blah blah

The bugzilla field should support links to other bug trackers (such as bugzilla.kernel.org when it comes back) Hangfire 22:05, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * This one might be a bit tricky as the +1 function needs actual code to back this. Maybe you can browse the MediaWiki Extension list [1] to see if anything offers a similar functionality? Also for this one, please add it to the suggestions page, and if you can, start working on example templates or ask for help with that. At any rate, I support the idea. User:a3li

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Extensions
 * I remember the old g-w.com(before the big wipe) had a which you where supposed to weave into the narrative like you do with  or  . IIRC it went something like  . /Ni1s 22:13, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmm, lets let bugzilla do what it's suppose to do, however, Bugzilla Reports seems to be promising for our wiki needs :)mitri 03:30, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Made a template in User:Wimmuskee/Troubleshooting, used in LTSP. Wimmuskee 13:37, 17 December 2011 (CET).

Machine Specific Articles
Would it perhaps be a good idea to have a reference article for articles dealing with a specific laptop/desktop/whatever model? These articles on g-w.com really lack consistency. /Ni1s 18:35, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

My email to wiki@gentoo.org:

One feature of g-w.org are the machine-specific pages, which (ideally) have the cpuinfo, lspci and kernel config each for an individual model of desktop / laptop.

The best of these is a fantastic resource - for each piece of hardware, it has a link to a full article explaining how to properly set it up, with short paragraphs with machine- specific quirks and workarounds. These pages are invaluable when buying a new machine, where getting concrete information on processors / cards /chipsets etc. can be really hard to find. eg. http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Acer_Aspire_Revo_R3600_/_R3610 (One of mine :toot:)

The worst of these is a horrendous mess, needing, with loads of partial information explaining hardware that is already properly explained in full and specific articles. cpuinfo and lspci information is incomplete (or does not cover all variants), and there is loads of useless content (such as full copies of xorg.conf). They are a mess, are generally unmaintainable (or unmaintained) and are not helpful. eg. http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Acer_Aspire_3002WLMi

It is really important for the official wiki that machine-specific pages are allowed (as they can be so useful), but that authors are constrained (encouraged!) to write 'good' articles, with many links to properly-maintained information and without useless, replicated partial-guides that go out of date without anyone noticing.

Thus, we need a template or similar to show what is and what is not encouraged in these articles. {Template:Computer} or {Template:Machine} would be good names. Additionally, these would be a good candidate for a separate Category. Hangfire 21:53, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I never understood why whole ls(cpu|pci|usb) dumps would be useful. Why not split it up(use -s?) under some useful wired, wireless, bluetooth headings. /Ni1s 22:18, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I suggest a 'big table' approach, e.g. http://de.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/HP_Compaq_6715b . Astaecker 07:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Pros:
 * Compact table to easily determine the support status (see Status column).
 * Links in the first place to properly-maintained articles.
 * Workaround informations possible through Note (german: Hinweis) column.
 * Except of workarounds no maintaining needed.
 * Contras (in comparision to above solution):
 * No 'one-page' guide. Answer: It 's not possible to put all informations of the properly-maintained articles in a 'one-page' guide. It's too much.
 * Big table edits are not user friendly. Solution: We can create an template for that big table, e.g.


 * I created an example   template and an example computer article using it. --Astaecker 07:01, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I would suggest a solution based on templates. As an example take a look at IP stack. So you just insert {Nvidia} to get a few paragraphs or a table with all the info about the GPU, or perhaps something like {GPU:Nvidia} or even {HW:GPU:Nvidia:model#} - so it would be more like a library with descriptions - just point out to the right direction. Pros: easy to maintain in single place. Cons: templates could be difficult to setup, and would require conscious and precise separation of info between templates.


 * In favor of the 'big table' approach, a use case is already present in ASUS_M50V, with the addition of creating links to page headings below where applicable (and lose the TOC), see HP_Compaq_t5710. Excess /proc/cpuinfo can be prevented by putting it in predefined templates, so they can be reused in different pages (see User:Wimmuskee/Processor/TransmetaEfficeonTM8000. Also in favor of a clear template structure, and explanations, for the computer pages, and predefined hardware templates. Wimmuskee 9:09, 03 December 2011 (CET)


 * Not if favor of the 'big table' approach here. Pimping a suggestion here, the Asus Eee 901 article on gentoo-wiki. Feature(by hardware) headings with nifty tricks weaved in. Bit of old(maybe outdated) cruft there but you get the idea, and a good idea is to use transculated pages wherever we can./Ni1s 22:35, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps a combination by generating the transcluded pages from the big table, see User:Wimmuskee/Computer/example./Wimmuskee 16:20, 04 December 2011 (CET)

'Link' template for translated pages
solves a problem with linking to translated pages, see the Rationale section. I would like to have some feedback before moving the template in the Template namespace. Astaecker 15:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * would Kernel do the same trick? )mitri 22:58, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, but only if you're logged in and set your language in the preferences. In every other case - e.g. you're are just visiting to read an article (not logged in) - Special:MyLanguage defaults to english. Astaecker 06:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Small tasks for admins
Make watchlist atom feed respect settings and send news items for every edit if asked for expanded watchlist. --Rei4dan 19:02, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Please elaborate on the problem. --A3li 14:20, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Templates need to be localized
Text formatting templates, such as Template:Note or Template:Warning, need to be either automatically localized, or need standard localized versions (e.g. something like Template:Note/ru or Template:Примечание) available for translators to insert manually. — tetromino 19:22, 11 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I experimented with it. Some solutions:
 * Separation of code and text by using subpages. The templates can be protected and translators can still update the text in the subpages.
 * For automatic localization using subpages I found no way to address the subpage (relativ or absolute) inside the template to fetch the translations, because after transclusion all variables (, etc.) apply then to the target page.
 * Translate the text (and only the text) with the translate extension works, but the tags around the text of the original english template will get transcluded and displayed in the target page. No problem with translated templates. Works too for english pages, if we use the english localized template version.
 * Translate the text without the translate extension we can use for each text string a parameter. The localized template version calls main template, passes through all parameters and add the translated text parameters.
 * No separation. The template gets big and the code is harder to read.
 * Automatic localization means, all translations are in the template. Technically we can use a switch function and e.g. User:Astaecker/Lang subpage template to detect the wanted language.
 * I prefer the "translate extension" solution, because of the quality control of the translations. --Astaecker 11:08, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Success Stories
A new category in which users can put their machine configuration.

It is nice to divide docs by hardware/software, but seeing a complete working machine of people is something that makes things much clearer. --Alonbl 23:51, 12. Nov. 2011 (UTC)

Print to PDF and/or Export to EBook File Format?
I prefer reading long articles on my EBook Device (Kindle DXG). Seeing most documents being published in PDF, or some sites even providing EBook formats. Thankfully, my device can handle PDF but some can't. As for the Amazon Kindle's, I've seen really good results using kindlegen on converting EPUB to MOBI, but using kindlegen on HTML with TABLE TAGS produces poor MOBI files. As such, I usually use PDF files for computer technical documents. Also, kindlegen (aka mobigen) is binary only (proprietary). A couple months ago, I mirrored the entire Gentoo Documentation just to convert XML to HTML using gorg, and then kindlegen to convert to MOBI. This is very tedious for EBook users! I manage quite well as I use the console, but avoid Calibre due to it's package bloat and lack of command line only. (Calibre requires X for it's command line tool.) Probably the simple solution for now, for simple articles would be to ensure a 'Print to PDF' option. Lengthy articles such as the Gentoo Handbook and EBuild/EClass documentation, would be nice to have an EBook format. Signed: Roger 19:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

I second this motion as far as PDF and ePUB goes. I even submitted a wish/bug to Gentoo's Bugzilla about this. Hook 00:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Provide direct links to Help:Formatting and Gentoo Templates on Edit Page
When editing a page, I always go stumbling along trying to find a dumb template or how to format something as the direct links to these pages are not always published on the page I'm editing. Except for the basic "Help" link, which doesn't do much good. How about placing at least two of the most popular Help pages (Help:Formatting and Gentoo Templates) right on the page that is being edited by a user so he/she doesn't have to waste time trying to hunt them down. (Although by now I have most of Help:Formatting memorized, some of Gentoo Templates are new.) The full links follow. Signed: Roger 19:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Help:Formatting Pretty much memorized here, but a good one for most others!
 * Special:PrefixIndex/Template: I think this is the one?
 * Help:Gw.com_cheat_sheet Actually, this is more what I'm talking about compared to the 2nd one above as it's more structured (easier read) like the Help:Formatting page!  Lacks many of the templates/commands though.

Spam
We need a way to deal with spam. --Alec 01:32, 16. Nov. 2011 (UTC)

INPUT_DEVICES template
Would be cool to have one, like VIDEO_CARDS :) --Disi 09:53, 23. Nov. 2011 (UTC)
 * These will probably be added as they are needed/useful. /Ni1s 22:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

see also at top of the page?
I am really a little pissed about that :/ Radeon AutoFS, see also my comment in the talk for AutoFS. I think, if, then those links would better fit under Links and not Radeon is a grafic-chip, see also Link to other wiki Disi 14:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I moved the references to the Links section Disi 10:44, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

"Best practice" for a new document
I miss a template for a good article. Similar sections a named differently f.e. (Links, External Links, References). in several documents.
 * It should be defined what belongs into a "good" document, and what does not.
 * How to handle external references, do we name all URL's separately at the end of a document or not?
 * which sections should appear in a gentoo-wiki document.(f.e. Introduction, Installation, Configuration, Troubleshooting)
 * How to write (1st person, 3rd person)

Since if it is not defined before, we end up in mass rewrites after some time. We could however create a template or a best practice for new documents, a reference, I bet many users would read it before contributing into this wiki. It is also a good help for those who never made a wiki document, they actually search for reference documents. --Needle 09:52, 26. Nov. 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Needle --Wimmuskee 11:38, 03 December 2011 (CET)

I am also in agreement with this and think this should be decided fairly soon before a large number of articles are written (and then require correction). Personally I find the biggest problem with reading gentoo-wiki.com is that the style of written articles is all over the place. Especially in regards to the aspect (1st, 3rd person). This would also make the wiki appear much more professional. Although all users may not adhere to this strictly, it would then allow policing of articles. --Feystorm 21:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

"me too" and it would also help to have rules of engagement spelt out properly. The approach at Wikipedia (The Editors - dah dah dah dum) is probably a bit over the top for this but a bit more obvious policy on dos and don'ts would help everyone. Gerdesj 20:19, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I want to undersign this idea. I have just started writing my first article on this wiki, and was looking for general formatting regulations. I can even contribute in creating such set of rules (I have some editorial experience), but in my opinion it definitely should be started by a developer. Also let me post some links how our friends from Arch try to achieve this: here, here or here, also this or this (I hope it is not prohibited to link to their site in this context :)). --Gorkypl 22:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Well why don't we have at it? Gentoo Wiki:Guidelines? /Ni1s 21:17, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Article wish list / Requested articles
As this "Suggestions" page is more about technical stuff, maybe it would make sense to have a counterpart on the content side.

Users can request for articles they want to read about in w.g.o and uninspired authors can take a look there to create new fantastic articles.

--Mrueg 15:21, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I have started one at Gentoo_Wiki:Requested_Articles — yngwin 06:42, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

server slow
It sometimes takes up to 20 seconds loading a page on wiki.gentoo.org, do others experience the same problem? Disi 15:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

weird heading at bottom of page
There seems to be something wrong with the font for headings?!? The same template is used but the font appears larger: see Tuning and Monitoring: screenshot Disi 11:38, 2 July 2012 (UTC)