User talk:Roger

Suggestions for the hplip wiki page.
Roger I appreciate your participation on the hplip wiki page however I would kindly ask you to be more objective and refrain from using terms like: "the HPLIP code seems to be poorly engineered" "It will make you want to avoid HP printers like the plague, due to broken packages, broken upgrades, and unfixed bugs within HPLIP, as this is the only error you get at most times!" "Pulling in extra, usually not needed dependencies, is another strong sign; those coding the hplip package are just hacking and requiring every package even though they do not use the packages. Or, they're poorly documenting while they're coding. Either way, nothing looks pretty from my user perspective, something a user should not be experiencing!"

I think you don't have the right to adress the hplip developers in such a way. Furthermore such things do not belong into a Wiki. I know the hplip code is not perfect and things could be done better but I try to get along with this.


 * Actually here in the US, we have Freedom of Speech. If something doesn't work right, we speak up and say so.  As for me, I'm usually one of the nicer citizens and refrain from negatively criticizing people.  However, since I've purchased my HP M1522nf, I've had some serious problems, and some problems still persist to this day and technical support fails to adequately fix.  (Whether due to lack of knowledge, or they're aware of the problem and cannot fix, I cannot say.)  I've spent a pretty penny in order to complete some necessary very important tasks every so often.  Usually, I'll have a legal issue occur and all of a sudden, the printer doesn't work due to driver issues.  (ie. Weird random chars when using "LanguageLevel 3", or I couldn't scan in a document because the scanner driver was broken.)  Now, imagine you're running a legal business, with a Judge wanting paperwork within the hour.  I'd say I'm being quite calm, rational and to the point, compared to others. ;-)


 * Now, if I were working for HP, I would be obligated to be more respectful and escalate my issue appropriately. (Else, I would be fired or not get paid. ;-)  Although as a civilian, I'm not obligated to this process, I did so anyways.  You can verify this by searching many mailing lists concerning the previously two problems.  Had an older individual ran into the problem I've had, they would have simply tossed the printer out and replaced it.  Anyways, as you can see, I'm well justified for being a little upset over the previously mentioned two problems.  Another irritating problem not resolved, the FAX line for the modem on this printer randomly opens on some calls, and during the nights while asleep, I can hear the static of the FAX modem.  Nowadays, I just bear with it and pretend there's a pretty girl eavesdropping.  Shrugs.  Besides, HP already shipped a replacement outside of the Contiguous US overnight, extending the warranty.  Thankful, but didn't solve my problems, and found my problems due to their software! (I'm laughing, but not really as I'm also a programmer and quite computer literate.)


 * As I look back over those snipped statements, I find they're quite relevant & justified. It is extremely easy while coding, to simply pull in every package while not considering somebody using the command line won't even use the graphical interfaces.  (You'll notice our Gentoo HPLIP EBuild takes some courtesy and tries to avoid pulling in these extra dependencies.)  The HPLIP driver does seem to fit this stereotype with relaxed dependencies and any issues brought forth, and HP Support from my past history immediately recommended simply pulling in all depends with all graphical interface tools.  On a Pentium 2x750 P3 with 1GB RAM, was a significant bloat at that time, and I still have this system alongside an x86 Dell laptop, while now using a completely updated system.  Now when you read those statements from a perception of somebody always using graphical user interface tools while working with a quad core 3.5Ghz CPU with 32 GB RAM, those statements can be easily misconstrued.  (I can further explain other relevant issues concerning pulling in dependencies which are not required.)  Granted, I was slightly ranting but we've also had open bugs with no significant progressive activity for those HPLIP driver bugs for awhile with HP support stating to just use GUI tools, etc.  When one codes, should likely be coding and building upon the command line.  GUI tools should not take precedence over command line tools.  However as with preference of not using first person grammar syntax, I also recognize sometimes GUI tools need to take precedence over command line tools.  Anyways, you should likely already understand all this with your education, aside from the understandably overlooking the misconception.

Also I would like to ask you to not write in first person as I think this does not look good in a Wiki as well.


 * I already know this. I too prefer avoiding first person grammar.  Matter of fact, I tend to avoid all cases of first, second and third person, and try to stick to the facts or "as one would read a book or manual."  Notice, I have sometimes used first person intentionally within the Problems sections, as it's unknown if the problem is universal, etc.  (ie. This happened to me, and this is how I fixed it.  Stating "this is what happens, and this is how to fix it" can be easily misconstrued the problem is known by more then one person.  Commonly known as misleading within the legal world.) Also, sometimes first person is used within the article, as the information is critical, but the first person grammar state is used to cite this component desperately needs editing or verification by somebody else that has more knowledge.  Just because first, second or third person is discourage, they are still useful tools for certain critical statements or situations.  These are one of those things where, there are worse offenders or lazier writers.  I just fix them as I come across them.  Trying to order somebody to refrain from using first, second or third person, might inadvertently prevent or discourage them from further contributions.  As they say, be thankful they wrote something.  Most people can't even write or type these days without the use of YouTube videos.


 * Within a perfect world, after a book has been proof read more then twenty times (albeit I think they don't these days), you'll notice almost every instance of first, second and third person dropped. For Wiki, it's a great goal... but can't be guaranteed.

Most of the problems in the troubleshooting part of the page are from you and are often related to the binary plugin which is not supported. I recommend you to create a separate page about the binary plugin and put this contents there. This said I will remove parts of the page which I think they do not really fit there.


 * I'll keep an eye on those changes. You might assume because I was a little upset, the documentation was assumptive.  The opposite is true, and if you've had a HP m1522nf device, you would have seen similar problems.  It sounds like you might be a little more keen on the HPLIP, and I will gladly yield as long as the changes are constructive.  If I see something not making sense and have time, I'll try to follow-up with a follow-up clarification to your attempted clarification.  Rereading this, sounds like you're going to be deleting all references to the binary driver.  Doing so, might create negativity within the community.  Remember, Fedora endorses a more stringent standard, while Gentoo and other distributions are more lenient.  Just because the HPLIP EBuild is not designed to do anything with the binary driver, doesn't mean we (or us volunteers) cannot try to either resolve or try to document pertinent issues within the HPLIP Wiki page.  Remember, to my knowledge, the HPLIP Wiki page is here to aide users, not to deter users or deter users from learning or trying to fix issues.  There was some sporadic talk about separating the binary sections of the hplip ebuild or fixing, or maybe it was all my talk, but this basically languished on my side due to a lack of time, as well as likely others having a lack of time.  Heck, we already do a pretty good job documenting and package on our own time...  probably something that should have been engineered upstream... shrugs...

PS: You seem to have so many problems with hplip but I never received a bug report from you, or do I just not recognize you at the bugzilla. The bugs will only be fixed if they are reported. You mentioned you are CC'ed on a few bugs but did you report your own bugs at the Gentoo bugzilla if it is ebuild related or at the hplip bugtracker if it is hplip related?


 * Eh, see above. I did.  You might have been one of the ones on an HP list who didn't know either.  I'm quite well known on the lists, or have some past history.  Ah. I see "Daniel Pielmeier", and seeing you're in Germany.  Well anyways, I'll holler and try to provide a better clarification if something authentic is pulled.  I'm all for constructive resolutions, hence hopefully making life a little easier for others.


 * Also note, although it would seem I've documented many problems with the HPLIP driver here, it should not be assumed I'm the only one with problems. When in fact, I'm likely one of the few whom encounter a problem, find the solution, and then attempt to document so others have an easier time finding a solution or fixing.  Statistically speaking, I only run into a few others here whom follow this process of documenting.  Seems we're within the minority.  Another deliminating factor, I usually utilize the command line tools, while others or maybe the majority gladly use the graphical interface tools.  (Not a fan of QT here. ;-)

is not to be used manually
See headline; please do not include it in any pages. —a3li 11:34, 24 February 2015 (UTC)